«If the West Detained Lukashenko's Agents, There Could Be an Exchange Fund.» Vechorko on Political Prisoners, Cabinet Staff Turnover, Border Situation, and Visas

Should we expect new restrictions on movement across the border? What about the passport of «New Belarus»? Answers to these and other questions — in our conversation.

Павялічыць

«Nasha Niva»: From July 1, restrictions on entry into the European Union for cars with Belarusian license plates. Are there any progress on the situation in the most relevant and geographically close Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia after negotiations with politicians of these countries?

Franak Vecherko: We agreed with Poland that it allows cars with Belarusian registration numbers if the owner is in the car. It’s more difficult with Latvia and Estonia, although there is no total ban: there is an agreement to allow cars on an individual basis.

Lithuania has taken a deferment: for now they are allowing cars with their owners, but they will review the exception in mid-August. And our task here is to ensure that this delay is extended, since the border with Lithuania — a critical artery for society that must be preserved. Lithuania also understands this, and within the framework of legislation they are looking for options on what can be done so that restrictions do not affect ordinary citizens.

«NN»: Is there already an understanding of whether it will work? with the continuation of this postponement?

FV: We are negotiating, we propose to accept Poland’s approach, but so far there are no guarantees. There are several aspects to this. We are supported at the political level. They understand that a distinction should be made between the regime and Belarusians, that restrictions cannot be imposed on those who do not support the regime. There is a legal aspect of how to frame this within the framework of legislation. And the third aspect — sanctions and financial. Because, nevertheless, many sanctioned goods are transported across this border, including by Belarusians. There are different people who use these corridors, including those under regime — We must understand this too. And it can be very difficult to differentiate people — who is pro-democratic and who is Lukashist. There is no way to check everyone individually. 

The volume of cross-border traffic is now much greater than before. It appears that to reduce the burden, Lithuania is slowing down border crossings, leading to long queues.

Poland has more resources in comparison. Lithuania and Latvia do not have the same opportunities. Therefore, they are trying to limit traffic.

We are now thinking about some kind of system for verifying people crossing the border, or creating special corridors.

«NN»: So, in general, each country determines its own border policy here?

FV: There is a general sanctions framework within the European Union to close loopholes for Russia and the Lukashenko regime, which helps it. And within this framework there are exceptions that each country can implement within the limits of its legislation and capabilities. Therefore, some countries may be more stringent, while others — make more concessions.

But this restriction was not written down today, it appeared in April 2022. It’s just that at that time it was implemented only in Russia: complete restrictions could have led to the collapse of both trade and border control. But now this frame has been applied to us. 

Is it possible to get out of this? I think yes. It seems to me that many restrictions were somehow unscrewed. For example, a visa ban for all Belarusians was not introduced in the summer of 2022. Belarusians are allowed into Poland, Lithuania and Latvia, a dozen European countries on tourist visas, Russians — No. Many people forget about this, but this is an important point to show that the restrictions for us and the Russians are very different. And this is also the result of negotiations.

What can interfere? Lukashenko's actions. If he enters into a full-fledged war, this could lead to the closure of the border completely; you should be prepared for this. Plus the transfer of migrants — the more this happens, the more restrictions there will be, because this is a security issue. But until this happens, we have space for maneuvers and negotiations, and we will make the most of it.

However, again, we cannot completely ignore the war, blackmail with nuclear weapons — this is what worries foreign countries much more than human rights violations in Belarus.

Павялічыць

«NN»: Svetlana Tikhanovskaya’s office is physically located in Lithuania, and, with all the support of politicians, there is sometimes no feeling of uncertainty about the future, especially with rhetoric «Belarusians as a security threat» or promotion of the topic of Litvinism from individuals?

FV: I think that Lithuania was not ready for such an influx of Belarusians, as well as Ukrainians and Russians. All this has created tension in society: the Lithuanian language is spoken less frequently in Vilnius, this scares people, and politicians react to this. And the regime adds gasoline with Litvinism — or what happened with the graffiti about Belarusian pigs at Furmanov’s store, — because he understands that this is a weak point.

I think that in many societies there is a fear of newcomers, not only in Lithuania. In one country it is fear of migrants from North Africa, in another — to migrants from Syria. And here, too, this is one of the reasons why sometimes strange statements are made by Lithuanian politicians.

The central line of Lithuania is clearly aimed at supporting the democratic movement, it is against Lukashenko. I think they are looking for a balance: how to support Belarusians, but at the same time respond to security issues and public opinion. Those politicians who support and continue to make exceptions for Belarusians very often go against public opinion. Including the current Lithuanian government, for which we are immensely grateful.

But it is worth remembering that Lithuania — Democratic state. There is customs, and there are separate Ministries of Finance and Defense, each of them has its own priorities.

The same Ministry of Finance is very pro-Belarusians, and lobbies our interests even more than the democratic forces — so that there are companies, all the permits, because these are economic and personnel issues. And then the Minister of Defense or Migration comes to the meeting, and there is another aspect. And our task — so that the voice of democratic forces is taken into account by all parties.

If we do not maintain contacts, our interests will not be taken into account at all. Today they listen to us, and together we are looking for some kind of compromise solution.

«NN»: With leaving Valery Kovalevsky’s project with the passport was delayed even further?

FV: Valery’s departure slowed down many processes, but on the other hand, there are positive changes — both in the structure of the project and regarding the agreements.

The passport center, which was created in Lithuania as an independent institution, is currently working on the project, it has its own administration. The center has a director, a Lithuanian citizen with extensive experience. They are now at the stage of finalizing sample passports. And the task is ours, the politicians’, to recognize them.

Unfortunately, this has dragged on so long that it’s a shame, but the idea has not been stopped. This is important not only symbolically and politically, but also practically necessary. The very idea of a passport catalyzed and forced our partners to make useful decisions at the national level. Thus, the Polish solution with a travel document, which recognized is equivalent to a passport — This is also the result of the fact that we constantly raised the issue of mobility of Belarusians. And the passport was in front of the politicians. So there is even an indirect effect from the passport, even before it is made.

In short, I’m not making any promises here, but the work is moving on, and I believe in this project.

< p>«NN»: Valery Sakhashchik has now resigned as well. Moreover, he left with words of criticism towards the United Transitional Cabinet. The place of Alexander Azarov is also still not occupied. Do you see a problem for yourself in staff turnover?

FV: I personally have a lot of respect for Valery Sakhashchik, he sincerely invested in the formation of the Cabinet, and his presence in the Cabinet intensified. I am sure that he will remain in the democratic movement, because he really cares about Belarus.

Were there any conflicts — and where do they not exist? In any case, the departure of any person — this is a loss for democratic forces. It's a pity. But we are all living people. 

Is there a lot of turnover in the democratic forces? Sometimes I wish there were more new people and ideas. Unfortunately, joining a political structure — this will fit under five new criminal cases. This is a big risk, responsibility — and no bonuses.

New people have now joined the Coordination Council. The context of our work is also changing. Perhaps this is a good moment for changes and strengthening for the office.

Павялічыць

«NN»: Against the background of prisoner exchange between Russia, the West and the USA and success in this matter with the release of Ukrainians from Belarusian prisons, I would like to ask: what about our political prisoners? What work is being done here, should we expect good news?

FV: Unfortunately, this exchange did not lead to the release of Belarusian political prisoners. We did not participate in the negotiations, and there was no Belarusian aspect in this exchange, except for the strange story with Krieger. Russia ransomed its spies and offered its prisoners in return. These days we had a lot of calls and conversations, but, unfortunately, no chance. And the problem here is not on the part of the Western partners, we know how much effort they put into the prisoners’ case. We know how much effort Poland is making in the Poczobut case. The problem is with Lukashenko, who is like a blank wall. For such an exchange to take place with Belarusian prisoners, it is necessary that there is such a willingness on the part of the regime and that there is someone to exchange them for.

The Europeans do not have Lukashenko’s spies, like the Russian ones, with whom they could exchange people. There were captured military men in Ukraine, whom they could exchange for their partisans. There are Russian agents in Germany.

Perhaps if the West had detained Lukashenko's agents, and not just extradited them to Belarus, this could have been an exchange fund.

We hoped for the release of people from the humanitarian list, and it seems that even Lukashenko sent the necessary signals, but, unfortunately, the phenomenon did not become something widespread.

Our minimum task — so that people begin to be released, and no new ones are imprisoned. So far, the trend is the opposite: fewer people are leaving prison than new political prisoners are appearing.

Павялічыць

«NN»: One way or another, Belarusians still have big problems with ordinary tourist visas. Could there be an improvement in the situation here, at least regulation?

FV: Our priority — so that visas are issued as much as possible. To a large extent, this year we were helped out by Bulgaria and Romania, which began issuing Schengen visas. Germany and Italy issue a lot. Oddly enough — Today, more Schengen visas are issued than a year ago, although they are often short-term. And this is not because Belarusians are punished this way, this is politics all over the world — reduce the number of migrants and increase security.

There is also no unified system: a visa is now like a lottery. Some get French immediately and cheaply, while others cannot register for three or four months to apply. There is also a pressing problem with resellers; there is a huge mafia working, including affiliated visa agencies that resell places for exorbitant amounts of money. This creates unequal conditions. After all, those who have connections and money have better conditions. This is a form of corruption. A visa should not be a luxury, it should be the norm for a Belarusian.

I think that in terms of consistency the situation will improve. Over time, it will become more clear what you can count on and in what time frame. But in general, Belarusians need to be prepared that as long as Lukashenko is in power, as long as the war is not over, as long as the regime behaves like this, the picture will not get better.

Neither in terms of mobility, nor in terms of visa However, at least preserve what is — our task is the minimum.

Павялічыць

«NN»: In August, many will again remember the events of 2020 in one way or another. Since then, have we moved closer to democratic changes in the country or have we moved away from them?

FV: I think that the whole history has accelerated greatly — both because of the events in 2020 and because of a full-scale war. And in general, the evolution of Europe, which includes Belarus, has accelerated.

But in terms of regime changes, we have found ourselves in a field of total uncertainty. We know that change will happen, although the time frame has become unknown.

Every country went through a difficult stage before the changes, sometimes with great losses, sometimes — with smaller ones. I think that today's events have taught Belarusian society a lot. Some people think that after Lukashenko a new dictator will come, but I think not. Because our society develops immunity to tyranny and dictatorship. And in relation to Russia too. Even those who previously held a neutral position today understand the threats posed by Russia.

If in 2020 everything depended on us, on the street, today much is tied to geopolitics, where our voice is very often not decisive. Therefore, it is very important to have as allies those whose voices will have weight. When there are negotiations on Ukraine, it is very important that they do not record a status quo that is dangerous for Belarus — the country is like a Russian satellite.

Independence — our main value. At all recent meetings, Svetlana Tikhanovskaya talks about this. Visas are visas, but it is important for us to understand the context and think about systemic changes in the country — how to get out of the dangerous status quo.

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